Because nothing says "great leader"...

[dragovianknight]

...like physically altering people by force and against their will.






Mostly, I wonder if tumblr fandom would be as uncritically "awww yis, Megatron is an awesome badass leader" if instead of curing alcoholism he was enforcing celibacy. "No more impure thoughts for you! *smack*"

Edit: *sobs* This is the most recent not on this particular photoset: "Aaaall of this. In the brief glimpses we’ve seen of Megatron on the Lost Light so far, he’s already looking like a far better captain than Rodimus ever was. Then again, Megatron is a seasoned leader— whereas Rodimus is still very naive and inexperienced in many ways."

Tumblr fandom...and possibly other parts of fandom, IDK...genuinely sees this as GOOD LEADERSHIP on Megatron's part. I can't even.

Edit: Found a spoilery review of the issue in question. Still not feeling the "Megatron is a great leader" vibe.

Comments

[hagar_972]

*twitch* Yeah, how about no.

[dragovianknight]

I mean, okay, it's Tumblr, but I've seen one too many reblogs of a comment chain that ends with "But I think this scene seriously endears everyone to the idea of Megs actually being a good captain." and barely anyone going "OMG WTF NO!" (I did have a convo with someone who said the Decepticons are the good guys and only LOOK evil because they'll do anything to win, but in tracking back notes I've seen ZERO objection to Megatron doing this.)

[recessional]

(I did have a convo with someone who said the Decepticons are the good guys and only LOOK evil because they'll do anything to win

*opens mouth*

*gives up, closes mouth* my head hurts now.

[dragovianknight]

Yeah, pretty much. She kept saying they were "misguided, maybe" and "had good intentions" and "but their goal of a just and equal society is great!" and not understanding that their methods DO NOT LEAD to that outcome, no matter what they supposedly are fighting for.

[recessional]

/o\

.....hopefully she's one of the teenagers just trying out the idea of moral complexity.

[dragovianknight]

I have no clue. But it reinforces my "oh, god, TUMBLR" reflex.

[hagar_972]

Framing. Megatron is posited by the narrative to be the Good Leader, and most people stop thinking and start interpreting everything he does through that angle.

I'm having this issue with the Haven fandom, where the show surface-presents a certain relationship as romantic (I'm hedging, because the narrative is more open and layered than people take it), and the fandom seems to ignore that Partner A has significant chronic sensory deprivation and identity-important aspects of his life are falling apart on him one by one, and Partner B can provide temporary solace from the sense dep and has all the charm of a serial killer who had centuries to hone her craft.

[dragovianknight]

In this case, I can see that, but the Megatron apologists are pretty rampant even when narratively he's posited as the villain.

And oh lord, Haven. I had to stop reading comments on Hulu for that series (not that comments on Hulu are ever a good thing.)

[hagar_972]

At which point I'm going to give up and point to "cultural narrative of glorification of raw-power-based or positional Authority", because I ran out of more proximal explanations.

God, Haven. Love the show, give the fandom really shitty looks. PoI fandom at least tries, though people miss the fucking point as often as not. Haven fandom... I can't be the only person creeped the fucked up by Nathan/Audrey and thinking that Nathan is... well, let's call it "has privilege and interpersonal imagination issues" and leave it at that.

[dragovianknight]

I haven't kept up with Haven, but at no point did I think we were actually supposed to buy Nathan/Audrey as a Great Romantic Couple. Or at least, I hope the writers don't expect us to. The fact that so much of fandom thinks they ARE just makes me shake my head.

[hagar_972]

I'm not suee at what point you quit, but at the end of S3 Nathan does something Greek Tragedy levela of stupid over Audrey, and S4 is all sorts of bent around those two as a result. I'm iffy on what the writers‘ position is because on the one hand they don't seem to lick the glorification of Audrey-and-Nathan, but on the other th L-word gets applied to them a lot anddeliverance through Love is definitely a Thing on this show. Just... Even the Nathan/ Audrey and OT3 people! God, how about no. Duke, like any decent human being, deserves better than the way either of then treats him.

[recessional]

...dude fuck youuuuuu. Especially since he just took away pleasure from ALL consumption. DIAF.

[dragovianknight]

And considering the after the fact explanation, I'm guessing this was a stealth "cure".

[recessional]

I will not only non-consensually violate and alter you, I WILL BE SECRET ABOUT IT!

(Never mind that like all addictions, while you can forcibly remove the substance, if you don't address the underlying thing they're using it to medicate....)

[dragovianknight]

Oh, don't be silly, addiction is all about weakness and a lack of willpower. MEGATRON WILL HIT YOU UNTIL YOU ARE STRONG AND RESOLUTE LIKE HIM. BECAUSE HE IS JUST THAT AWESOME.

[recessional]

How about I hit him with the forklift the Harm Reduction people use to move their boxes of pamphlets around until he gets the point?

[dragovianknight]

Are you hitting him For His Own Good(tm)? Because if so, that's totally okay.

[recessional]

Well the other option is Trixie (our local recovering addict in this space) rearranging his atoms into, like, a giant pretty opium poppy (for the irony), so totally yes.

[dragovianknight]

I'm kind of voting for the poppy, myself. But then, I'm not quite as enamored of Megatron as most of fandom seems to be.

[recessional]

Hahah.

(Trixie's fun for that. Because she def. comes to a point where her response to "addiction is about weakness!" is "come at me, bro.")

[zero_pixel_count]

...wait what OH HELL DO NOT WANT.

(says the 10-years-sober alcoholic)

[dragovianknight]

The comic is bad enough; the people applauding how Megatron is an AWESOME leader are making me twitch violently.

[zero_pixel_count]

Oh, fuck, no, that level of control goes a loooooong way beyond 'leader'

[dragovianknight]

Yeah. I have no problem with people liking villains - many of my most beloved characters are at the very least on the dark side of grey - but the portion of fandom recasting the Decepticons as a bunch of great guys is downright disturbing. (See my comment above about how the Cons are the good guys, really.)

[recessional]

This is the thing! Love villains all you like! JUST STOP TRYING TO INSIST THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOOD GUYS.

[dragovianknight]

"You know what? MTMTE Megatron is THE Megatron; the only one that makes sense. Whoever invented that bad fanfic shit of Megatron being a molester, a rapist and a random killer is just insane to me and I’m so happy canon finally sets that right in all clarity.

Megatron’s never been a ‘bad guy’, he’s just went down a really questionable road which is the whole and only tragedy about this character and what makes it all so great.

To his own faction he’s a hero and with effing good reason."

"THIS!!

I’ve been saying it all along—the Decepticons are the GOOD guys. They just look evil because they’ll do ANYTHING to achieve their goal."

I could not MAKE these reactions up if I TRIED.

[recessional]

I know. I'm in MCU, remember? Ask me about woobie!Loki (anf the complete inability to understand moral agency). MONKEYS.

[dragovianknight]

Oh, god, LOKI. You DO know the pain.

[recessional]

Yea. And just when I thought his brainless fen couldn't make my eyes roll out of my skull any worse, they are now butthurt that "those haters" are all "excusing" things the Winter Soldier (you know, the mindcontrolled, brainwashed slave) does while still being "mean" and "not understanding about" Loki.

So I feel you, sro. I feel you.

[dragovianknight]

*headdesks until the desk shatters*

[recessional]

It is so hard not to run an all-caps, profanity filled seminar on moral agency and ethical responsibility. I mean, its also pointless to do so because tumblr fandom, but ffs: NOBODY MADE LOKI A GENOCIDE. HE COULD HAVE GONE HOME TO LOVE AND HONOUR ANY TIME HE WANTED. HE THREW A TANTRUM INSTEAD.

(Which: I know Loki-fans who are absolutely intelligent people and love him in his full mentally-unstable, vicious glory and that's cool. It's the "It's not his fault because his brother was more popular than he was!" that sends M's into OH MY GOD AUUUUURGH flail.)

[dragovianknight]

It's the "It's not his fault because his brother was more popular than he was!" that sends M's into OH MY GOD AUUUUURGH flail.

Yes, THAT. MCU, the worst we can say about Loki's life is that Odin is a bit of a dick and Thor was more popular and rather shallow. WOE, POOR LOKI.

[recessional]

SERIOUSLY.

But I can totally see where a similar thing could easily run with Metatron. *shares beverage most appealing to you* WTF guys. LOVE VILLAINS. LOVE THEIR VILLAINY. You know who I love? Muppet Treasure Island's Long John Silver. He's FANTASTIC. And an evil SOB. IT'S GREAT.

[dragovianknight]

With Megatron, I just can't get over the whole, "But look, the Decepticons were rebelling against an unjust system! They have a good goal! Their intentions are good, they're just a little misguided!" Because a) that doesn't justify the path they've taken and b) I see no clue that Megatron's pasted-on backstory has informed his present-day characterization at all.

Muppet Treasure Island is a brilliant movie. I need to watch it again.

[recessional]

Stalin was rebelling against an unjust system, too. :P

[elspethdixon]

uncritically "awww yis, Megatron is an awesome badass leader

But... but it's Megatron! The mere fact that Megatron is the one doing it ought to be enough of a clue that permanently altering someone's programming without their consent is Bad and Wrong. (if it weren't already inherently obvious, that it).

... maybe I'm too influenced by the G1 cartoon, where the only reason Megatron isn't the very worst leader ever is that Starscream and Galvatron exist?

[dragovianknight]

Apparently, in the IDW comics Megatron has had a change of heart. Though, obviously, not of tactics, nor has he experienced enlightenment regarding personal autonomy. These facts don't even slow the Megatron fangirls down, alas.

(Starscream was apparently ELECTED leader of Cybertron. I can't even.)

[rosabelle]

... wow. Just... how do you get that wrong?

[white_aster]

...yus. That panel made me just a wee bit uncomfy. I mean, I think it's totally in character for him to do that. It's even, from a mercenary standpoint, a good solution/punishment to the problem (and if it was a punishment for a fuck-up, that might change it for me, but I don't know the context), as it will make the problem go away forever.

But yeah. Doesn't mean it's an ethical punishment or that he's a good leader. And this is coming from a fan of the sane!Megatron.

[dragovianknight]

Oh, I can agree it's realistic and potentially necessary (or at least, expedient). But I can't think of a context where it's admirable or proof he's a great leader.

[hopeofdawn]

See, one of the reasons I like Megatron (and certain other Decepticon characters--*coughcough*Soundwave) is because they are perfect examples of the slippery slope of villainy, at least in their more modern incarnations. They rebel against an unjust system, tear down the oppressors, and then, as they start embracing their whole 'the ends justify the means' philosophy more, they gradually became as bad or worse than the oppressors the had originally rebelled against, in effect just perpetuating the cycle. Or sending it into an ever-worsening spiral, I'm not sure which ...

But I'm sure Megatron and co. don't think of themselves as villains. No dictator/warlord/gangster/king ever does ....

[dragovianknight]

*nodnod* Yes, THAT is what makes them interesting, and I hate it when fandom erases that in favor of "Clearly, Megatron is THE GOOD GUY" instead of "Clearly, Megatron has become what he originally fought against."

Every villain is the hero of their own story, but I question people making them OBJECTIVELY heroic.

[willow]

Huh,

I read the clip and went; Oh shit that's so evil.
Then read your words and apparently people don't think personal body and pleasure integrity and autonomy is a thing that SHOULDN'T be interfered with.

And I can't...

Cause your comments mention addiction.

And without context? I just thought Megatron fucked someone up for liking 'human' things like food and said 'Oh yeah, well eat all you want but you'll never gain anything from the experience cause I am reinforcing the machine - fuck your android soul'.

With the machine standing in for the established order, status quo, Megantron's rules and feels.

I just...

Yeah, I personally believe more than half the people being total assholes on tumblr are clueless 13-25 yr olds with no lived experience in anything value challenging.

[dragovianknight]

I don't have FULL context, because from the start I have not seen what has fandom pissing itself with joy about IDW comics, but yes, apparently the mech Megatron "cured" has been positioned as the Cybertronian version of an alcoholic. Which I guess justifies physical/mental alterations without consent, and makes Megatron a "good" leader. Where I read it as making Megatron the exact kind of power-tripping, violating asshole he supposedly was rebelling AGAINST at the start of the war (only I suspect that canon, like the fans, is oblivious to that).

Edit: Not to mention the "four million years of practice". Megatron has apparently been beating his will into his troops for the entire length of the war.

[willow]

People don't get addicted to alcohol cause they like being drunk. They might like feeling free/less anxious/being able to unwind kinda or actually self medicating for a bunch of things. They may have a chemical dependency. And likely other things I'm not familiar with.

So an 'alcoholic' can have drink but not 'enjoy' the what? Flavour?... or no get drunk? But can still.... drink?

Cause again, not all alcoholics get 'drunk'.

I just...

Not even getting into Megatron, that's some ablist bullshit right there.

Also creepily?

If the person had the cybotronian equivalent of a sex addiction. Megatron just what? "Oh you can have all the sex you want, and continue using sly ways to get people into bed for your own purposes. But you'll feel no pleasure from sex or get no relief from it. I don't give a fuck what your trauma or issues are - I just need you to shoot a gun. In fact if the more frustrated you are, the more of a terror you are on the battlefield? Win win."

I can't...

Yeah. That's some oliarchy ass shit that is.

Also, now I find myself thinking of all Megatron's soldiers as persons with torture Stockholm syndrome and Starscream as - well at the very least let ME rule this broke ship.

I just found a perspective for Starscream as (rebel)hero.

Pshh. This clip is all levels of wrong.