This mindset terrifies me

[dragovianknight]

Where people condemn a book they haven't read, based on one person's opinion.

Comments

[recessional]

Mmmmhm.

Tho again it's interesting: the DRIVERS of this shit, as the article notes, are adults.

they're adults who've found a vulnerable and easy-to-sway audience that's passionate about something, and are exploiting that. I mean plenty of the teens join in being assholes, don't get me wrong, but they're not the ones driving the boat.

[dragovianknight]

They're like cult leaders, right down to the whole "If we declare something is -ist, then that is Truth and you must not question or challenge that declaration."

[recessional]

Mmmhm.

Welcome to bullshit monkey dominance games! Same shit, different makeup.

[codyne]

Kinda makes me glad the internet wasn't around when I was a teenager. I was messed up enough as it is!

[niqaeli]

I haven't read the article, because I am tired and have a doctor's appointment. Which, like, the thing is you can absolutely judge things not worth your time for pretty much any reason at all, including one person's opinion, the phase of the moon, the blurb, the fact that you think author's name is ridiculous, or maybe just that it's Wednesday and you're tired; that IS something some people seem to have trouble with the idea of.

But this idea people aren't then even allowed to read whatever the hell it is their own damn selves to see what they make of it and have opinions of their own because any particular fucking person declared it Problematic? Threats for failing to conform? Fuck that noise. That is literally the shit the old religion got up to where I grew up and it fucked people up hardcore. Try it with me, and I will do a great pissed off feral cat impression. I read what I fucking want, and have done since I was 13 years old and lying through my teeth to access archives, THANKS.

But I'm Old and Cranky. I don't know what to do for the kids gettting swept up in this shit.

[recessional]

The implication in the article is in fact that some of the kids are getting fucking cranky and tired of getting swept up in this shit; unshockingly it's the college first-years who actually end up speaking up, as they've passed the threshold of having ANY adult authority at all while still being "SO I'M STILL 19 AND I'M TALKING ABOUT SHIT FROM THE LAST TWO YEARS . . . "

[eerian_sadow]

Well. I made it about halfway through the article and then went and bought the book. The actual hardcover book. Which I will then donate to the library at the high school when I'm done reading it.

[dragovianknight]

Please do post your thoughts on it. I don't have the funds to buy it right now.

[eerian_sadow]

I certainly will! ^_^

[zero_pixel_count]

So I think this is not a new thing so much as the Internet has made it more visible outside the affected group? Like, my partner's mum disapproved Strongly of D&D. About which she knew nothing! But Upright Churchy People said so and they wouldn't lie to her would they? (Later in her life she developed enough bloody-minded self-confidence to trust her own understanding over Church Elder types.) And that was apparently a huge thing in many families.

But I knew nothing of that attitude until adulthood, because it was not in my own parents' circles. The Internet has given us much greater visibility of what's being pushed, I don't think it's actually created the problem though.

[recessional]

No, the new (well, new-ish) parts are:

- it's so-called "progressives" doing it, rather than churchy fundamentalists (we have actually already had this go-around with porn and the
- they're coopting very effectively the language and concerns of actual activist stuff that is itself still in precarious positions, which creates a new problem
- the social media thing has, indeed, given both more visibility to it and more access to content creators
- the problem is now in this specific field


All of it is ALWAYS just the same old Monkey Dominance Bullshit Tricks. ALWAYS. Its previous guise in fandom was the Mary Sue Persecutions, but then that made you the badguy instead of the goodguy so it's switched ways of doing it. That's all.

[zero_pixel_count]

This makes much sense.

It would appear I currently have a grouch on about technology footing the blame for humanity, or something. Possibly related to being stuck in the city and that cranking up negative feelings about humanity, wait that whole rant needs to be a post as it's not related.

[hopeofdawn]

I wish I could say I'm surprised to read about this kind of policing, but I've read enough self-righteous rants about fanfic on Tumblr to just sigh and shake my head sadly. (Writing underage kids having sex makes you a pedophile! Think of the children!1!) >.<;;

Drama llamas will always be drama llamas, I've found--social media just gives them a wider audience for it. Hopefully most of these kids will grow up and learn to tune it out. I'm more worried about how many authors will be scared away from writing anything even slightly more diverse because they just don't want to deal with the whole mess ... more white-male-centric YA fic is definitely NOT what this world needs.

[dragovianknight]

I'm more worried about how many authors will be scared away from writing anything even slightly more diverse because they just don't want to deal with the whole mess
It's troubling how we've gone from calls for more diversity to people outright saying it isn't the place of white authors to tell the stories of PoC. It's like a segment of the internet really has decided to set up a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.

[cereta]

Yeah, that made me deeply, deeply uncomfortable. I mean, the one sentence tweeted to show how awful the book was...why wasn't everyone's first question, "But what was the context of that sentence?"

This is why I spend so much time teaching students to evaluate sources before they take something they read as gospel.

[recessional]

And bless you for it.

[dragovianknight]

why wasn't everyone's first question, "But what was the context of that sentence?"
Why, because Someone had already declared that sentence Terribad, of course, and therefore nobody else is allowed to read the book and make their own determination about it. Because once something is declared -ist, anyone trying to have a rational discussion about it is a horrible person.

As recessional already said, bless you for trying to teach people to use their critical thinking skills. People like you give me hope.

[rosehiptea]

It looks to me like they may have some legitimate criticisms of the book, since their point may be that even if the "bad guys" are the ones saying these things, they mirror real-life issues that need to be handled delicately. That said, I don't get this attitude of "So now no one should read it." I didn't think Jodi Picoult would do a good job portraying autism, and guess what, she didn't. But I didn't go around saying so without even reading the book. (Note: I am not autistic so I'm not saying my opinion of the book is important here.)

[rosehiptea]

To add to this with another example, also from Jodi Picoult: I really didn't think she would do a good job portraying the holocaust so when she brought it up in the a book I didn't read the book. But I didn't go around telling other people not to read it because I don't even know what's in it.

[dragovianknight]

Yeah, I have no problem with someone saying, "this book is problematic in XYZ way" or "this book was badly written" or even just "this book sucks." It's the mindset of "now that one person has declared this book to be X, nobody is allowed to read it and make their own judgement". (And gods forbid they SHOULD read it, make their own judgement, and that judgement be, "This book is not X.")

[wildforce71]

I read a lot of reviews for work and I hate this mindset. It may be coming from a good place, possibly, but it's hurting the industry and the kids who are reading these books.

[dragovianknight]

I'm very, very leery of people who go, "No, this book is Bad and you are Bad if you read it, just trust my judgement and don't make up your own mind." Tumblr style "social justice" is very cult-like and run by bullies.

[jehanne1431]

I read the article and wrote a very long rant, and then condensed it to this:

The idea of shutting people down because you don't agree with their ideas, and want to keep them from expressing them, is so anti-everything I believe in.

WTF is so scary or threatening about the free expression of ideas (in any form)? WTF is so scary and threatening about thinking for yourself? You can't have a free and democratic society without these things.

Read for yourself. Think for yourself. Speak for yourself. No fear.

[dragovianknight]

I understand people wanting to warn others that "this book may be hurtful to you" or "this book perpetuates stereotypes". But the whole cultlike idea that once someone has declared a book "problematic" nobody but THE ENEMY would want to read it and decide for themselves - that nobody could possibly read it and DISAGREE it's problematic - that only a BAD PERSON would read it, agree it's problematic, and possibly enjoy it anyway...this attitude is deeply disturbing to me.

[jehanne1431]

Yes, exactly. This need to attack people and label them as bad/evil/enemies when they don't agree with you is very disturbing. It's intellectual bullying, and the bullies are winning, because, as the article showed, people are afraid to stand up to them, this vague, virtual crowd of ignorant people who hate a book they've never read. They're afraid to give comments using their real names. I find this more disturbing than the bullying itself.

And I do see it fundamentally as these people feeling threatened and reacting. People who are trying to warn others as an act of kindness or concern don't attack others. So why do they feel so threatened by those who would disagree with them over a book that they spew a very hateful rhetoric against them? I mean, if they think that everyone should think the way they do, and they can't handle the fact that it's okay that others don't, they have a serious problem.

[maureenlycaon_dw]

Oh, that's right . . . I reblogged it from you. *facepalm*

I kicked someone off my "followed" list on Tumblr because the brainless dweeb *ordered* white authors never to write from the view of POC's. Yes, I do feel strongly about this.

There's a real problematic element on Tumblr that is at least as rabid, fucked up, and mentally damaged as the OTP fanatics in earlier fandom ever were, and at times they've been calling for violence. They're doing a lot of damage.